A Top 10 for 100: Story Recommendations

After about 2 years, I’ve hit post number 100 on this blog. Obligatory reflections are as follows: This blog now contains about as many words as A Tale of Two Cities. To anyone and everyone who has ever stumbled upon this humble wordpress blog, thank you. To anyone and everyone who ever happens to stumble upon this humble wordpress blog from this day on, thank you. This place has only ever existed for me to practice an aspect of my art and to share what little I may claim to know about the art of storytelling with all of you.

Also, we’re nearly halfway through NaNoWriMo. How’s everyone’s 50k challenge going? I’ll front with you all, there’s some serious effort re-quadrupling that’s going to need to be done on my part.

Anyway, today I’m getting a little bit more personal. Today I offer you 10 of my favorite stories of all time. They have all been discussed at some length on this blog (save for one), so this will be a series of brief overviews of why I would recommend some of the things on here. The first five are in no real particular order, but you could say the last five will be essentially counting down my favorite stories with Number 1 being at the bottom. After 100 posts, let’s boogie!

10: Troy (2004 Film)

Not off to all that convincing a start are we? I’ve discussed the plot of this film at length a few months ago, and lost in all the babble about recreating myth in a historically plausible manner may have been the fact this is one of my 3 favorite movies all-time. Now before you storm off with what remains of my credibility, hear me out. As a history major, I found the manner in which the film was shot and the story told fascinating, considering our primary source of knowledge about the Trojan War is an epic poem, more rooted in myth than history. And before everyone gets their feathers ruffled, there is solid evidence that a war was fought around the city of Troy around the year 1200 BCE. Whether that means the Trojan War of myth actually happened, I’ll leave to you.

In addition to the myth building, the dialogue and monologues in this film are top notch. As soon as I hear Odysseus give that opening line: “All men are haunted by the vastness of eternity” I’m strapped in. If this film had released a couple years earlier, the fight scenes (particularly the large scale battles) would’ve been revolutionary (a la The Two Towers). As it stands, Troy does a fantastic job of fusing the grandiose battles that one would expect involving a war where a face launched a thousand ships, but also highlighting the duels and romantic vision of The Iliad.

9: The Invasion Cycle (Invasion (2000), Planeshift (2000), and Apocalypse (2001) Books)

For any of you Magic: The Gathering fans out there, back in the day every new expansion bloc had a novelized trilogy associated with it. Right around fifth grade, when I was first getting into MTG, I discovered this little dark fantasy saga, and my readings of not only The Invasion Cycle, but also The Onslaught Cycle, The Mirrodin Cycle, and The Kamigawa Cycle, have informed the types of stories I tend to tell ever since. Of these, Invasion and Mirrodin are my favorites, and for nostalgia purposes, let’s discuss the former rather than the latter.

As I mentioned above, The Invasion Cycle is firmly within the realm of dark fantasy. It is brutal, ugly, and at times downright depressing. Whereas Troy blends the poetic elements of war with a bit of the ugly reality, Invasion pulls no punches. Within the first two pages, you are thrust into the total war between the two planes of Dominaria and Phyrexia. The former contains everything that is beautiful about MTG, all the diversity (both beautiful and otherwise) and the latter contains monstrosities out of a realm of nightmares. There are reluctant heroes, all powerful planeswalkers, epic battle after epic battle, and a captured sense of what it might actually look like if two entire worlds went to war with one another. And yet, it’s the quiet moments where Invasion truly shines. While they don’t happen all that often, there’s a heart-wrenching look at infectious disease through the eyes of the main characters. There’s betrayal, there’s a series of questions regarding what is worth sacrificing to save what’s left. As action packed as it all is, The Invasion Cycle is a relatively quick read and comes with a recommendation from me, especially if you want to improve your action scenes and descriptive voice as a writer.

8: Avatar: The Last Airbender (2005-2008 TV Series)

Back in the realm of familiarity for you long time readers. There is no family TV series I can praise more than The Last Airbender. With a plot straight out of the original Star Wars trilogy, a colorful cast of characters from multiple sides of the conflict, this show takes what Star Wars did well, and explores the themes a bit more deeply. It’s a show where you can see the characters’ growth from episode to episode, it’s not afraid to have its main characters fail, and in the end it has a powerful message regarding perseverance in the face of adversity, second and third chances, redemption, and the ultimate triumph of not only good over evil, but the triumph of right over wrong and justice over revenge. I’ve already typed out way too many words on this subject, so if you’re feeling adventurous, hunt down all the old pieces on this series on this blog.

7: Honey and Clover (2005-2006 Anime)

Despite my love of Shonen Battle animes like BLEACH and Akame ga Kill, my favorites are the quirky, borderline slice of life ones like Shokugeki no Soma and The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. And my favorite of them all is Honey and Clover, which is full-on slice of life. The story of five kids at varying stages of their young lives going through art school and finding jobs and personal direction afterwards. My go to example for producing a story full of drama and emotion, without the presence of a single villain. There can’t even really be said to be an antagonist either (for you wisecracks who would point me in the direction of my own post on Princess Mononoke where I discussed the lack of villains there). If you’re looking for something to experience in a relaxing manner, where you can find high drama in a group of kids searching a clover patch for a four-leafed shamrock, this is the anime for you.

From a storytelling perspective, this is a prime example of a narrative that is entirely character driven. The only outside force acting upon the characters is the ever present forward march of time. And it’s a show that takes it’s time, but like life, it’s never going to let you linger in a moment for too long.

6: To the Moon (2011 Game)

Where do I even begin to express my love for this masterwork of the visual novel genre? To the point where I recommend it to non-gamers wholeheartedly and trampling over the “but really I don’t play video games” excuse. Play this one. It takes 4 hours. Come back to me when you’re done and we can share a box of tissues.

To the Moon is a tightly weaved story in the vein of Inception and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (both of those incidentally have my recommendation). It takes full advantage of the world it builds, namely the existence of a company that can go back and alter dying people’s memories to fulfill their final wishes. It avoids questions of morality and elects instead to focus on the mystery of one man’s life, namely: why does he want to go to the moon? For you writers out there, this is how you revolve a story around outside narrators who are simultaneously the protagonists of the story and not involved in any way. As beautiful as it is heartbreaking, tears will likely be shed, To the Moon can’t be praised enough from my point of view.

5: Final Fantasy X (2001 Game)

But my favorite game of all time has to go to the first Final Fantasy I played. As I replay it now, I’ve come to realize that Tidus’s narration throughout the game is actually spot on. It provides a sense of retrospect that by the time the final act comes around, the decisions that are made carry that much more gravity. At the same time, it never completely removes the player from the moment. It could almost be taken as his thoughts immediately following an event, which for someone who isn’t aware that he is, in fact, telling the story as the player plays it, keeps them from getting lost.

At the same time, FFX utterly nails pacing. It takes advantage of the fact that the player-characters are on an epic quest that spans their entire world. The amount of information and plot isn’t drip fed through player exploration and having to puzzle everything out yourself, but at the same time there are very few exposition dumps. Everything that can possibly be communicated through gameplay is. And to top it all off, for a 15 year-old game, the cut-scenes are to this day, extraordinary. In short, if you’ve got 40-60 hours to throw into something and care to know how to write a good epic, almost any Final Fantasy game can give you that. This just happens to be my choice.

4: The Scott Pilgrim Series (2004-2010 Graphic Novels)

While the film is a fantastic adaptation of the novels, it’s really more of an entry point to the series than anything else. It introduces you to the everyday, yet completely bonkers world that these characters inhabit. It covers the visual spectacle and the struggle of young adults trying to find their way in the world. But if it’s context, depth, and pacing you’re after, then the graphic novels are for you. The character development is sublime, the pacing between everyday drama and high-spectacle action is a thing of wonder, and by the end you will have a complete understanding of everyone involved in this saga, for better and for worse. Like what I said about FFX above, the graphic novels take advantage of the length they are allowed to make the reader feel the length of the journey. Entire characters and backstories that aren’t included in the movie can be found in the novels. Here, the fights against the evil exes are not the main attraction, but rather the climaxes of each episode. The lie and share of the pages you’ll flip through are day to day life more in the vein of Honey and Clover than BLEACH.

Of note here, pay attention to the balancing act between providing flashbacks and context, and actually pushing the story forward. Exposition is something that doesn’t need to come right away. It only needs to be known to the audience by the time it will be relevant. The trick is making the exposition entertaining without a flashback sequence coming out of nowhere. O’Malley nails it here.

3: Star Wars (1977-Ongoing Films, Books, Video Games, TV Series, etc.)

The first movies I can remember watching as a kid were the original Star Wars movies on VHS. I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve watched them. I love the prequels too and the expanded universe books. I’ve played my share of Star Wars video games, watched my share of TV series, and have pretty much loved all of it. The amount of depth that has been put into this universe is something that no single individual can do. It is the result of not only George Lucas’s original vision, not just the additions made by Disney, but combined the efforts of thousands of fans producing their own content to flush out an entire galaxy worth of history, and millions more adding their thoughts and interpretations as well.

At the end of the day, the original trilogy is a fairly straight forward “I Am the One” arc plot. If you were to remove the setting and philosophies of the series, you’d have something that’s actually quite stale. So that means that the setting and themes are A+ grade and are worth studying for all you storytellers out there. As expanded upon in the prequels, Star Wars is less about the battle between good versus evil and more about the rise and fall and redemption of its characters. It’s more interested in the drama between its protagonists and antagonists than it is about the galactic conflicts happening all around them. It’s an important lesson in the value of producing a high quality world, but also creating higher quality characters to inhabit it.

2: Spirited Away (2001 Film)

For anyone who has skimmed just the titles of the posts that I… uh… post here, you should get a sense of the fascination that I have for this type of arc-plot. While not the first instance in the history of story telling of a character getting zipped away to another world and forced to find their way back home through myriad adversities, it is in my opinion the defining one. Everything about the story, the characters, the pacing, the visuals, the themes, is perfect. As we’ve progressed through this list, I’ve spotted a common theme in a lot of these recommendations: the storyteller takes their time. There is no rush to get to the end, no concern that the reader will get bored, but at the same time there is very little in the way of extra fat added on to fill out the story. Everything that is presented to the audience is to the betterment of the audience’s understanding of the world, characters, and circumstances that they find themselves is.

Furthermore, this is a movie of pure imagination, and it allows the audience to immerse themselves in it. Visually, this may be the most stunning movie I’ve ever seen (of course, I’m biased towards animated films so take that with however much salt you need). While the characters are colorful and fantastically realized, this is a story with a distinct focus on the journey, and overcoming all the trials the spirit world can possibly throw at you.  And it passes those trials with flying colors.

1: The Wheel of Time (1990-2012)

And despite all of that, my favorite story, the one that has most certainly influenced my writing the most over the years, is Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time. I’m not entirely sure where to begin, so I’ll start by pointing you to the handful of retrospectives (I’ll finish them someday, promise!) I’ve already posted here. This is a fantasy series that fuses everything about the high fantasy genre perfectly. From world-building, to character arcs, to political intrigue, explanation and exploration of everything other-worldly to the point where by the time you’re done it seems everyday. The Wheel of Time immersed me like no other book series ever has into its world. Phrases that out of context are little more than gibberish produced audible gasps, and to this day I’m convinced no one has mastered the art of the cliff-hanger to quite the extent of Robert Jordan. Furthermore, I have yet to find a story that uses prophecy to its advantage this much. Because of the story’s themes and nature of the world’s history, prophecy is able to be both completely accurate and completely surprising when it is fulfilled.

To compare to the flavor of the day, A Song of Ice and Fire: both Jordan and Martin produced incredibly detailed worlds, with deep history and varied cultures and characters. Suppose that the act of storytelling is like casting a net. The grander the story, the more characters, the bigger the net has to be to contain it all. The net is made of plot threads that must be navigated correctly or else you end up with a tangled net and muddled story. Martin has solved this problem by cutting the threads and killing characters, not to imply that this is wrong or an ineffective means of storytelling, but after a while you can’t help but wonder if such a grand net was needed in the first place. Jordan, with pretty much no exception, casts his net, flushes out his world, tells his story, and then pulls the net back in undamaged. Every single character has a complete arc, from the main character to a random palace guard you meet on one page in book 3.

Yeah. He comes back.

And it all makes perfect sense. That’s something I feel I can’t stop reemphasizing about The Wheel of Time. Every arc is natural. Yeah there are 14 books and some of them feel like not a whole lot is happening, but I can’t imagine the characters arriving at the endings they arrive at if even a single chapter were removed. And somehow, despite all the immersion, and all the prophecy, the ending is somehow a complete surprise while at the same time being completely in line with everything contained in those books.

So concludes this round of recommendations. Here’s to hoping I’ll have 10 more to provide 100 more posts down the line. Thanks again for reading. If you like what you find here, why not try and share it? Writing and storytelling tends to be a solitary act but you should never have to go it alone. I’ll see y’all next week for a return to business as usual.

In the meantime, I’ve got a few dozen… thousand… more words to write for NaNo. Happy writing!

Plotting: Troy (2004)

I feel like I’ve been saying this a lot this year, but, disclaimer: this is legitimately one of my favorite movies of all time, if not my straight up favorite. It’s likely due to the combination of historical fantasy, mythology, and military history the film presents. It’s got quotable moments, it’s got action, and it’s got a somewhat different spin on the Trojan War than permeates popular culture I think.

So what was the Trojan War? Most people might throw out Helen and Paris as the two key figures and say it was a war for one woman. Others might go more specific and tell you Paris (a prince of the city-state Troy) fell in love with the wife of Menelaus (king of a Greek city-state) and the two made off one night. In a rage, Menelaus went to his brother Agamemnon who decided to help his brother seek revenge and get his wife back. By the way, Agamemnon had conquered pretty much all of Greece at this point and had a massive army at his disposal. Still others will dive even deeper and bring up a contest between the goddesses Aphrodite, Hera, and Athena. They basically had a beauty contest and picked one lucky (or unlucky) mortal to be their judge (e.g. Paris). In addition to strutting their stuff, they each promised Paris different things if he picked them. Aphrodite promised him the most beautiful woman in the world as his wife. In short, the man chose Aphrodite.

So somebody ends up getting screwed over by the gods, that happens all the time in Greek mythology. Turns out the other gods get a vested interest in the war as well. Hera and Athena (because Paris didn’t pick them) side with the Greeks, Aphrodite defends Troy. Apollo, the patron god of Troy sides with Troy, Ares being Ares just fights wherever. By the end, pretty much all the major gods are involved and its such a mess that Zeus has to call an Olympian ceasefire and the gods just sit there and watch the war… for 10 years.

The final lasting image of the Trojan War on pop-culture is that of the Trojan Horse. We’ll get to that later, as the movie does a decent job of presenting the Trojan Horse scenes.

Let’s begin with the film… at the beginning. Novel concept I know…

We begin not with Paris stealing Helen, or a contest of goddesses, but with Agamemnon settling his affairs with the last free king of Greece. The battle is decided in the classic “your best against my best” format. This was a surprisingly common format for settling battles in different cultures across the world, and across history. Agamemnon’s best is none other than the protagonist of this movie, Achilles, the greatest warrior in the world. In mythology, Achilles was an all-but-invincible warrior who famously had one weak-point: his heel (we’re all familiar with the Achilles tendon right?). This was because when he was a baby, his mother Thetis (a demigoddess in simplistic terms) tried to make him immortal by dipping him in the River Styx. It would’ve worked, save that she was holding him by his heel, thus leaving that one spot vulnerable.

Here, we have none of that. Achilles openly rejects the notion that he can’t be killed within two minutes of us meeting him. In this telling of the Trojan War, Achilles is a simple man who only wants to be remembered as the greatest warrior of all time. He cares nothing for the politics of other kings and especially hates Agamemnon who uses Achilles’ talents to get what he wants. But if Achilles is so great, why does he put up with Agamemnon? Because as great as Achilles is, Agamemnon has the armies to crush him. Remember, this isn’t the immortal Achilles we’re dealing with here.

In fact, this movie stays (for the most part) far away from the mythological and fantastic elements of the Trojan War. None of the gods appear in this movie, and the handling of other iconic moments from the war are handled beautifully. Save for one scene: the scene with Thetis.

The short rundown is that while Agamemnon’s off being Agamemnon, his brother Menelaus is hosting two princes of Troy, Hector and Paris, to celebrate a recent alliance between the two city-states. Paris makes off with Helen, and Hector, knowing its too late to keep Menelaus from going to his brother, agrees to keep sailing on for Troy. Sure enough, Menelaus goes to Agamemnon who agrees to launch of fleet of a thousand ships at Troy to retrieve his brother’s wife. Why would Agamemnon commit so much for his brother’s honor? Trade and power. Agamemnon had been eyeing Troy from across the Aegean Sea for years. Conquering Troy would secure Agamemnon’s empire and eliminate his biggest rival.

Back to Achilles. The call to arms has been sent out and he’s debating whether to go to war or not. It’s at this point we get a scene of him having a conversation with his mother, Thetis. It’s the only time any sort of divine being appears in the movie. Her sole purpose is to prophesize  that should he partake in this war he would never be forgotten in the annals of history but he would never return from it. She provides everyone with very obvious foreshadowing that would probably have been better suited to be delivered by Odysseus who delivers the news to Achilles a scene earlier about the war between Greece and Troy. Surely Odysseus, cleverest of all the Greeks could’ve told Achilles that and kept the gods out of this movie. Because in my opinion, the lack of divine intervention is what makes the movie so intriguing. It’s a snapshot of how possible events and the reporting of them could lead to myths and legends being spun.

Cut to Troy where we see a surprising amount of King Priam and Hector’s wife throughout the movie. The film actively seeks to make the audience sympathize the with the Trojans and demonizes Menelaus and Agamemnon. Every scene with Hector not in armor also features his wife and newborn son. The Trojans wear tie-dye robes and colorful dresses compared to the Greeks who we almost see exclusively in armor. Cultured, advanced city vs. warmongering barbarians.

So the Greeks sail for Troy, establish their foothold and the war begins. While the major clashes between the army are quite a spectacle, the primary focus of the movie remains on the battles between heroes. Paris vs. Menelaus, Hector vs. Ajax, Hector vs. Patroclus, Hector vs. Achilles, etc. Before the true spectacle can begin, Achilles captures the young daughter of Priam, Briseis, in the temple of Apollo and starts a strange, rapidly evolving relationship from captor, to rescuer, to lover. Achilles also beheads the statue of Apollo at the temple, a symbolic message that this movie will not be delving deep into the fantasy elements of this war.

Let’s begin our series of duels. First up is Menelaus vs. Paris. The former is a seasoned warrior and the latter is a young lover. It goes exactly as you would expect, save that Hector intervenes and kills Menelaus before he can kill Paris. So the Trojans are treacherous scum right? Except that before the fight the movie goes out of its way to show an aside between Agamemnon and Menelaus where the former says he wouldn’t honor the terms of the fight even if Menelaus was victorious. He came for Troy. For every low-blow the Trojans deliver, the Greeks always come out looking worse, rather through intentions or actions.

But Achilles is there so the Greeks are fine right? Except that Agamemnon enraged Achilles by taking Briseis as his own spoil in the earlier battle and now Achilles is sitting out the battles. Hector meanwhile is able to lead the Trojans to victory over Agamemnon, defeating the mighty warrior Ajax in the process. The Greeks retreat and the Trojans celebrate.

However, it turns out the Trojans are plagued by more than just the Greeks, they’re plagued by their own terrible decision making. One would think that as lead commander, Hector’s voice would carry the most weight in a war council. Turns out Priam is a very pious man and heeds the advice of a head priest who claims to have read signs hinting at a great victory tomorrow. Hector, wise to the fact Achilles sat out the first battle doesn’t want to risk uniting the Greeks by attacking their camp. Priam sides with the priest, and Hector begrudgingly sets out to prepare his men.

Meanwhile, Achilles is on the verge of going home. He saves Briseis from Agamemnon’s men and takes her back to the tent with him (that bizarre, rapid evolution of their relationship I mentioned earlier). Really their entire affair makes little sense if you think about it… It’s a strange cross between Stockholm Syndrome and the Florence Nightingale Effect leaning towards the former no matter how hard the movie tries to spin it as the latter. He’s contemplating returning home and leaving the Greeks to whatever fate they find on the sands of Troy.

The Trojans attack, and once again Achilles and his Myrmidon are sitting out. OR ARE THEY? Achilles leads the charge up the beach to meet Hector and the two duel and… Hector wins? Turns out it wasn’t Achilles, but his young cousin Patroclus the whole time. Suddenly Achilles is filled with the desire for revenge and goes out to challenge Hector in one of the most iconic moments of the entire war. While the two don’t circle the city a full seven times in their fight, it goes through numerous stages. I’ve often looked for a symbolic ‘seven stages’ in this scene and can’t say I’ve ever found it. As expected, Achilles is triumphant and takes Hector’s body back to the Greek camp as a further act of petty revenge. But he’s accomplished his goal and can at least sail home in the morning right?

Enter Priam who sneaks into the Greek camp to beg for his son’s body back. Achilles is moved by the king’s words and agrees, returning Briseis to her father as well. They also enter into a two week ceasefire which Agamemnon is persuaded to honor, not out of compassion or tradition, but by Odysseus.

While not a major character in the movie, in the lore Odysseus is pressured by Agamemnon to fight in this war. He never really wanted to leave his wife and child back home in Ithaca, and he spends the entire war wanting nothing more than to get back home. He launches a gambit that we know today as the Trojan Horse to end what was in history/mythology a 10-year war. In the film, the war is much shorter and Odysseus is just a Greek who wants to go home and save as many Greeks as he can. He believes that even without Hector, the Greeks won’t win a straight up battle with the Trojans. They need treachery. So he devises a plan to build a giant wooden horse as an offering for Poseidon and have the Greeks pretend to sail away. A few men would hide inside and when the horse is taken inside the city to the temple of Poseidon, at night, the Greeks would slip out and open the gates for the rest of the army to sack the city.

Achilles catches wind of this plan (because how can you not notice a giant wooden horse getting built?) and decides he needs to stay and ensure that Briseis survives the sacking of Troy. Why? Reverse-Stockholm Syndrome. Achilles’s motivations are really shallow throughout this entire movie. Fight for glory, don’t fight to spite Agamemnon, fight for revenge, fight for a one-night stand. To be fair, Achilles isn’t that intricate a character in the source material but his motivations in the final act could’ve been less cliche.

Remember back when I said the Trojans made bad decisions? Well, when they stumble upon the ruins of the Greek camp and find the offering, Paris urges his father to burn it. Again the head priest steps in and says it’s an offering to Poseidon and should be taken to the temple in the city. Pious Priam again sides with the priest. Besides, Paris started the whole chain of events that led to the death of his eldest son so…

Hold on a second. Why a horse for Poseidon? Isn’t he the god of the sea? Short answer: he’s also the lord of horses. Back in the day, Poseidon fell in love with the goddess of nature, Demeter and wanted to win her over. Depending on the version you hear, he pursued her in the form of a horse or he made the horse himself to please her. Basically, there are a lot of variations to the Greek myths depending on which vase or wall you’re looking at and which town you found it in. One thing’s for certain though, Poseidon was lord of the sea and big into horses.

Night falls and the Greeks open the gates and the sacking of Troy begins. Achilles heads the opposite direction to save Briseis who is in turn looking for Paris who is likewise looking for her. It’s a chaotic mess in a burning city. Agamemnon kills Priam by stabbing him in the back in a temple of the gods while the Greeks loot the place and topple the idols. He then comes across Briseis praying and decides to kill her himself. That’s when Achilles shows up and kills Agamemnon. Enter Paris, who sees Achilles with his sister and assuming the worst begins to shoot Achilles with his bow. The first bolt flies through Achilles’s ankle.

He turns to fight Paris who unloads arrow after arrow into Achilles’s chest. Achilles, being the legendary hero that he is destined to be, pulls the arrows out, but succumbs to his wounds. Briseis, after a heartfelt goodbye, flees with Paris and Helen (and Aeneas carrying his grandfather on his back!). Achilles is left to be found dead by the other Greeks who only see the warrior with a single arrow through his heel and a bunch of other broken arrows scattered around him. It’s an absolutely brilliant shot.

And there you have it. Troy. While it (for the most part) actively goes out of its way to distance itself from the supernatural elements that populate The Iliad, it leaves spaces that could easily be filled to account for the myths and legends that arose out of the Trojan War. Rather than seeing how actual events led to the telling of legends, this is an interesting look back and attempt at reverse engineering some possible explanations for the widely known legend. Does it hold to its source material? No. The final act is a wild variation from The Iliad, though it does include an easter egg for those familiar with The Aeneid. Is it that smart of a movie? Not really. At its heart it’s a fun action movie with great fight scenes. But at its soul, I think it offers just a little bit more than it’s given credit for. Plus, how can you say “no” to that cast?